queer shouldn't be PG just for being queer

[mickeym]

This just really...well, it's pissing me off. I'm scrolling through my flist, as you do, and come across a story that sounds interesting, as happens...until I scrolled just a teeny bit further and saw the full headers, and got smacked in the face with this:

Rating - PG. Because of slash and some word choicing. (the bolding is mine)

Now, if you're rating it PG because of language, FINE. I still don't see the purpose in PG/PG-13 since we're supposed to all be adults, but whatever.

But what the fuck is up with rating a story BECAUSE OF SLASH? That's like saying "hey, you're queer, so you can't be rated G".

I'm probably getting worked up over nothing, but it feels discriminatory to me. I don't know if I should say anything to the author (or how I would say it) or not. I just...is it just me? Or does it feel inherently wrong to say you're rating something based on the fact that it's m/m (and some word choicing)?

Comments

[wendy.livejournal.com]

I would just assume it meant there was sexual content in it. That happened to be between boys. Not that the author was saying that slash is bad, or whatever.

Also, if it said "rated PG for het-allusions", I wouldn't read it. But "rated PG for references of slash"? I'm all over that.

[mickeym.livejournal.com]

I don't know that she's necessarily saying slash is BAD (or I would hope she wouldn't be writing it)...but I got the impression from the way it's worded, that she feels because it's slash, it requires rating at all.

[wendy.livejournal.com]

I really, really didn't take it that way at all.

[fleshflutter.livejournal.com]

The fact they've even posted it at comms which are specifically for a slash pairing makes me wonder. Why warn for male/male relationships if you're posting it in a slash comm? And as for rating because there are gay people in it? *headdesk*

[mickeym.livejournal.com]

Ah, so you've seen it, too?

And yeah. I got the impression that she's warning because there are gay people in it. Not that she necessarily thinks teh gay is BAD, but there's some sort of crossed signal going on there, that she feels she needs to rate it because of the presence of teh gay and not for just 'sexual content'. (Am I even making sense? I hope so.)

[fleshflutter.livejournal.com]

Not to be too specific but a 'five times' rps, yes? And I do wonder why she feels she has to warn because if she's writing it, I presume she's okay with it. I ought to add a disclaimer here and say that I am aware that fiction does not equals reality and I personally am not condoning every single thing I write about - including the violence and world-ending. But hopefully you see what I'm clumsily trying to say?

[fourfreedoms.livejournal.com]

You're not getting worked up over nothing, unfortunately that's actually kind of how the cinema ratings function *kicks 'em* stupid Americans.

[mickeym.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Bleh. I mean, given that she's writing slash, and posting it to slash comm(s), I don't get the vibe that she's being deliberately disciminatory; in fact, I doubt she realizes how it reads, putting it like that. Product of...everything around her, probably. But it still makes me grind my teeth in annoyance and frustration.

[withdiamonds.livejournal.com]

I doubt she realizes how it reads, putting it like that. Product of...everything around her, probably.

Exactly. And that makes it even more frustrating.

[cathexys.livejournal.com]

No, I don't think you're overreacting. It's actually a pretty good indication of how same sex anything is usually considered not appropriate for children (and i can't count the numbers of times i've had *that* argument!!!)

[mickeym.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Matthew and I have had one-after-another discussions about how there should be NO difference in how m/f, m/m or f/f couples are perceived -- and if it's okay for kids to see affectionate PDAs between m/f, it should be the same for same-sex couples. Personally? I don't want to see ANY sex stuff -- regardless of the genders involved -- in anything kid-related, y'know?

[cathexys.livejournal.com]

but i think it's more the kiss on the cheek when you come home from work kind of stuff...that's totally appropriate in kids' programs, but try to have that same sex!!!

[ihearthings-ii.livejournal.com]

man, what is UP with fandom today? :/

[geneli4.livejournal.com]

wtf? i'm offended by everything today, i guess, because seriously, WTF? does the comm require writers to explain why they're rating a story the way they're rating it or something, because who does that? who even decided fic needed to be rated? *is irritated*

[tealin.livejournal.com]

I remember having this conversation years ago, with a writer who's no longer in fandom. She was a good friend and we knew each other for years before it came up, one day, out of the blue. Turns out, that she felt any indication of a m/m relationship, even something as benign as hand holding or a reference that two guys were more than roommates, was worthy of a mature rating. We went round and round about it, because I thought maybe she was kidding or just didn't get it, on some level. But no... she firmly believed homosexuality was something kids had to be shielded from and that only their parents had the right to decide if they could know it even existed.

How does one respond to that, especially coming from someone who was, at the time, an integral member of a slash fandom? I still feel sad about it, even now, so long after it happened. If there's that sort of bigotry even here, then what chance is there of getting rid of it elsewhere?

[kaiz.livejournal.com]

I find it sad, but not surprising. After all, consider the results of this experiment (http://www.abcnews.go.com/2020/WhatWouldYouDo/Story?id=4725740&page=1). Massive WTFery like:

"I don't really find it inappropriate, especially during the day when schoolchildren aren't running around. They might get confused and want an answer for what's going on." (FTA)

The comments on the article are even more packed with WTF.

[tealin.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, I saw that article, too. I felt like I had a mild case of mental whiplash, after reading it-- surprising tolerance for the most part, contr asted with folks like thewoman you quoted. Oh, and someone calling the police because they were 'all over each other'. Still, no one assaulted either couple. That's progress, eh? /snark

[kaiz.livejournal.com]

I felt like I had a mild case of mental whiplash

Word. One step forward, two steps back it seems. *sigh*

I could really wish that people would stop trotting out "but think of the children" as a justification. I mean, it is *that* traumatic for them to explain, "Sometimes two boys/girls fall in love with each other, just like your mom and dad did" ?

Anecdote time: I subscribed to a gen mailing list way back in the dark ages and a minor kerfuffle arose because someone wanted to post a (gen) crossover to the list that featured a (canonical) lesbian couple. The couple wasn't having sex in the story, mind you, they were just mentioned as being a couple--seeing how, like, they were in canon! It wasn't allowed because it contained 'mature themes' or some-such, although the author was allowed to post a link to it. *facepalms*

[girlguidejones.livejournal.com]

Would not read on principle.

[aislinn-tredor.livejournal.com]

I don't even put slash in a 'warning' category.

It should be placed in the summary that a story is slash, if anything. I don't see how a gay relationship rates higher than a straight one o__o

It should be rated higher for SEXY slash, just like it would be higher for SEXY het.

Maybe the author is young and just doesn't know where to put it? Or is just ignorant about things?

[fpvs.livejournal.com]

Though I think it could be read as it being a PG because a relationship exists (and they figure that's as good a place as any to post the type of pairing). But it could be because it IS Slash that they're classing it as PG. Which means Parental Guidance Recommended. Implying that, yes, kids may have questions/confusions about why two men/females are together when they'd normally see a man and woman.

I don't like that it would get a PG rating based purely on that, but unless kids have two dads or two mums they're gonna be confused. My aunt was in a relationship with a woman and it was a while until I realised they were TOGETHER. And that was my first realisation of homosexuality. :) Stupidly my parents didn't tell me. I think it would have been better... *frowns*

That's my opinion. If it makes you upset, do tell me. It's how I see the rating system. It's not perfect, that's for sure!

[stungunbilly.livejournal.com]

Dude. It is obvious discrimination. Unless the same person warns for het of the v.v. mild variety.